We are planning to offer MA in International Relations (Global and Regional Security) and your obedient servant started asking potential employers if they would be interested in our graduates. Frankly, I used to have certain reservations - why should British bankers or German investors be interested in experts on global and regional security? So it was slightly surprising but it was nice to hear enthusiastic speeches of bankers, financial consultants and the like that they are eager to employ our graduates as political advisors.

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Avatar for lm спустя 36 минут (30 мая 2007)
lm

how should people with no financial / banking security education work in such a companies?
there is a special vocational trainin' - financial and economic security.
i think it was just words(((

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photo спустя 20 часов (31 мая 2007)
Дмитрий Победаш

сотрудник

I beg to differ! Well, i must admit that i also thought that bankers employ people with degrees in Economy, Finance, Banking or Business Administration.
In reality CEOs of banks, financial consultants, etc. were really bitter about Russian bureaucratic institutions that REQUIRE that they have a certain number of key employees with the above degrees. Those clever foreigners argue that our «economists» are not trained properly to deal either with realities of market economy or to understand Western ways of doing business. They would very much prefer to hire people with all imaginable degrees and train them.
And, when discussing our MA in IR, they were not all that interested in issues of economic and financial security specifically. Rather, our would be graduates were assessed as very promising «raw material» for additional training. And the most promising, in their opinion, would be to employ them as political advisors, liaison officers, etc.

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Avatar for lm спустя 1 час (31 мая 2007)
lm

ok, its reasonable. still if they think about unsatisfactory level of our education they are not quite right))
but its also obvious that the utmost of the students even dont want really to study anything. but there are enough of qualified young professionals. im studying currently in ustu at economic department. and they teach us how the business is made in europe and america. why dont talanted youth go to the international credit organisations? the answer is simple: they dont offer money. its normal for banking business. our bankers have a very high rate of workers flow because of it eather. they should make the earnings correct - and they cant be 12 thsd. RUR. its really not enough)))). and its really a lot of «but».

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Avatar for grausam спустя 1 день (1 июня 2007)
grausam

Nice to hear that our faculty is still in the center of attention for international employers.

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photo спустя 14 часов (2 июня 2007)
Дмитрий Победаш

сотрудник

still if they think about unsatisfactory level of our education they are not quite right)). but there are enough of qualified young professionals. im studying currently in ustu at economic department. and they teach us how the business is made in europe and america.

Both of us can keep admiring our economists. Moreover, it is quite possible that they are really experts in market economy and know everything there is to know about making money in America or Europe. But still the foreign employers act according to their beliefs, i.e. Russian economists do not know anything about market economy. Wrong as they might be, if you want to be hired you'll have to stick to their rules. BTW, that's a nice example of social constructivism that really RULEZZZ!!! Perceptions become a very important, if not THE most important factor.

why dont talanted youth go to the international credit organisations? the answer is simple: they dont offer money. its normal for banking business. our bankers have a very high rate of workers flow because of it eather. they should make the earnings correct - and they cant be 12 thsd. RUR. its really not enough)))).

There can be several solutions: 1) if they pay us peanuts - let monkeys work for them - set up your own enterprise and your salary will depend on you; 2) go to the place where your talents can be appreciated; 3) start with the niggardly sum of 12K and work your way up.

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Avatar for lm спустя 2 дня (4 июня 2007)
lm

nothing to say against))) completely agree))

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Avatar for ekorovina спустя 2 часа (4 июня 2007)
Екатерина Коровина

I started with a lot less than 12K (in the civil service, though), but I thought it perfectly okay, nothing niggardly, for someone without experience. The more so about the banking sector, where you need a LOT more special skills and background, but as an IR graduate you simply don't have it. So my choice would be to start with a smaller sum and work my way up.

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Avatar for lm спустя 35 минут (4 июня 2007)
lm

well.. i'm not only IR graduate. and i have special skills anyway)).. with my job i have to cooperate a lot with banks. and i have found that they pay averagely 15 thsd pro month to people, that work more than 3 years. and only 1 of 10 can pretend on smth more.. interesting, yep?
but it's obvious, that everything is up to us and depends only on us))

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photo спустя 4 дня (9 июня 2007)
Дмитрий Победаш

сотрудник

i have special skills anyway))..


That's my whole point! Foreign employers more often than not would like to have what i'd call «tabula rasa» workers, with zero previous working experience. Within the last two weeks this idea was constantly expressed by bankers, investors, car manufacturers, consultants, architects from Britain and the US. They would very much prefer graduates with zero working experience and with NO special skills to be taught according to the needs of their company. In their opinion, it takes too much time, money, and effort to re-train people.

And, of course, you can pay less to an employee who has no experience
;-)

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Avatar for lm спустя 48 минут (9 июня 2007)
lm

quite normal. so with this they should better start hunting on the first-year students. and give them half-day job during their studying. they will get specialists that are pretty young, good educated and taught in accordance with companys needs.
right?
p.s.|off| if your job is interesting, salary is the second point))

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photo спустя 4 дня (14 июня 2007)
Дмитрий Победаш

сотрудник

that sounds reasonable, but those smart bankers may think that they'd better use BA graduates who are at least literate. Besides, it can be pretty difficult to combine work and studying. Especially if you started learning a couple of foreign languages.

And as for money - again, i'd agree entirely!

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Avatar for katya спустя 5 дней (20 июня 2007)
katya

Hi, it is quite interesting what you are saying Dmitry Ivanovich, but I have another point of view. As you know, now I am a student at Columbia University pursuing a Math and Econ major, I found it difficult and even frustrating to find an internship in the financial sphere without appropriate experience and background. (internships can be paid, but also can be unpaid) I am considered to be a senior, with my transferred credits from URGU, but companies ask for specific courses to be taken (for instance accounting and finance, corporate finance....) and I am not even talking about investment banking, but just a trader position. With such courses taken, a person definitely has a higher chance of being hired. (and of course GPA matters)
And companies can say a lot of stuff in their presentations, but when you go to the interview they ask you specific questions, related to the financial sphere and sometimes to about certain deals and the logic of these deals. So, indeed, everything depends on the person, but competition is quite fierce and it is more a question of connections, luck and self-presentation for those who do not have an economics background. There are too many people right now who are trying to major in econ, engineering, math from great schools, so employers have a lot of choice.
And to get an internship in Russia in such companies like Ernst & Young (though it is more a consulting and accounting company, than anything else, but still…).....,again either you should be smart enough to compete with students from great schools (they try to enroll students even from here to go to Russia and I know they try to do it in Europe too) or have connections (sounds quite trivial).

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photo спустя 10 часов (20 июня 2007)
Дмитрий Победаш

сотрудник

Really sorry about your troubles, Katya. Anyway, I'm absolutely positive that you'll find a good job. But the great thing about Russia is that now as they say «labor is really tight». That basically means zero unemployment. And there are lots of decent jobs around, but (surprise, surprise!) you can become a CEO with $120,000 salary right after graduation only if your last name is Abramovich or Deripaska. Connections do mean quite a lot here, but i guess right now it is much easier to find a job here.

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photo спустя 23 дня (14 июля 2007)
Дмитрий Победаш

сотрудник

Coming back to the beginning of this discussion. My point was - who needs employees with MA degree in IR? Here in Monterey, Ca. the very question would sound stupid. The head-hunters rush in to the campus trying to get hold of IR students. I could see many opportunities back at home as well, but would very much prefer to hear from the students. Actually, your ideas about your future career could also help me in working on my IR-related courses.

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